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Thread: Triple Vifa NE12" vs. dual Tympany LAT 700 Showdown

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvjoint View Post
    Ha ha, clock battery 1, nuke 1000000, speaker 0. Based on first impressions it is a nuke.
    up next, LAT 250's!!! I love what your doing, that you went for it. On the Bass Decay is that from rattling? Thats why you want to decouple it?

  2. #22
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    There are noticeably fewer rattles with the LATs, if anything I expected the decay to be better. Not sure what's going on there. I'm gonna have to retest to make sure the spikes are there again. I want to decouple it some more because there are only benefits - even fewer rattles, and no downsides like loss of output.

  3. #23
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    See Rub & Buzz and High Order Harmonic Analysis Tutorial - Developer Zone - National Instruments
    Seems like higher order HD tests 10+ might work for rub and buzz type tests which are closer to standard rattles/vibration. I don't seem to have a test to show how the LATs reduce vibration in a quatified manner. This is clear audible and imo dwarfs the small shortcomings like: lower sensitivity, higher HD (2-5order) below 30hz, and slower decay (if test is realistic).

  4. #24
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    Updated the plots with new bass decay results. It turns out I picked "adjust for response" for the LAT but not for the Vifa. Now they are both done using the same setting. They are nearly identical now.

  5. #25
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    Testing results thoughts:
    SPL

    The LATs are about 3db down for the same volume on the deck. The impedance loads are 1.33ohm for the Vifas and 2ohm for the LATs. The Clarion class G amp is actually more powerful at 2ohm than 1ohm but none of this adds up to even .5db difference. So the LATs are more innefficient. Little surprise here, they have more movable parts, the cones have massive strengthening ridges, the voicecoils are beefier so they weigh more, and then there is the mass of the connecting rods. Even carbon fiber weighs something. This translates to about 2x the power requirement.
    The coils are supposed to carry on 2kw by IEC ratings so it won't overheat. That's more than 4 times the Vifas' combined power handling 450w vs. 2kw. It will however increase draw, amps work harder, I can hear the fan turn on from time to time, and for some setups the amps might be insufficient.

    Frequenecy Response

    The Vifas are well known for the wiggle at 27hz or so, it's no surprise that the LAT surpasses it there. Otherwise the ultra low FS (18hz in the white sheet plots) gives the Vifa the edge in extension.

    Harmonic Distortion

    Over 30hz the HD is nearly indistinguishable. Bellow that the Vifa has much better HD. This is really unusual, HD drops from 30hz down, testament to the low end capability of the NE construction. I don't know a 12" that diggs as deep as this one.

    Decay

    Seems like the LATs have the edge, especially where the wiggle in the Vifa's impedance plot shows up as a resonance in the upper 20s.


    All in all the LATs seem perfectly capable in this comparison. It's true that sub 30hz the Vifa owns, but this is unusually good performance. The LATs are nearly identical to the AE IB12s I had in FR and HD albeit with a much lower sensitivity. The big tradeoff here is fewer rattles vs. sensitivity. If you have the power available it's nice to reduce rattles. It certainly won't stop me. I'm thinking of upgrading my sub amp next to feed it a bit more juice. The ability of these Vifa NEs to dig deep does seem really good, and I will miss it.
    Last edited by cvjoint; 04-30-2012 at 07:05 PM.

  6. #26
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    Not what I expected. I would have expected the LAT's to have more extended frequency response for sure.

  7. #27
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    Well, they do keep up with the AE IB12s. The Vifas have a peak at 20hz, that's highly unusual and hard to beat with any sub.

  8. #28
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    What's next? 6 lightweight shallow 10 inch subs in a LAT style manifold? :thumbsup:

    These look like they would fit the bill no? Seems like you would get a boost in excursion, surface area, efficiency, and maybe inductance performance.

    SB Acoustics :: 10" SW26DAC76-4

    And with some creative birch ring cutting and hardware placement, you might not have to pull your hair out making the manifold. Make one big birch sandwich.

    *Patent pending (:p)

  9. #29
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    Haha, you are already planning some work for me huh. This time I think there is no LAT replacement and here you are. I thought about using multiple woofers in a manifold but no bueno. That SB would create a manifold that is at least 12" deep, way too much for my trunk. Physically it would impossible to even drop in the trunk, it won't fit the opening. The only way to do it is with 7" subs at most, and well there is no way to get the low end extension to even match the LATs and it weighs the same even with shallow neo subs.

    The only way this is getting upgraded is if Tympani calls in and they want to upgrade my motors. Still waiting on the call.

  10. #30
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    Man, you guys have it all wrong, George is working on a way to get this in his car next, and replace his radiator fan with it http://www.eminent-tech.com/main.html:gr_grin:

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