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Thread: Triple Vifa NE12" vs. dual Tympany LAT 700 Showdown

  1. #41
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    Sheesh, I love what you do Charles. I haven't thought too much about HT but when I get to it and I'll start by copying your setup lol

  2. #42
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    So I figured out a way to mount 4 x Vifa NE 12"s in a mechanical push-pull. The concavity of the Vifa cone allows the top sub to be mounted about an inch and a half inside the second sub! That's some serious compactness and I think it makes them comparable to shallow mount subs depth wise with none of the drawbacks. The problem is it is 13" deep. With the LATs I get a whole lot more trunk, I can move them another 4" back or so from where they are now. The LATs are also much lower and i can get my trunk springs back. The odd thing is how they come out in WinISD. I expected them the Vifas to have loads more output but the problem is the box aka "trunk" space remains fixed. At low frequencies I noticed the dual LATs and quad Vifas have equal output. The Vifas only pull ahead 45hz up. That's rather unfortunate. I didn't know box volume matters that much for output. I even added 6 Vifas in the simulation and still no increase in output down low!

    In actual tests it seems the trio of Vifas have 3db more output. That I expect to maintain but I don't think the fourth sub does much sadly. Either more power or more room is needed, not more subs. Think about this too, the Vifas are an additional 6" deeper, and due to roundness the LATs displace even less for the same depth, so the leftover trunk space is much larger with the LATs, probably an entire cubic foot! That can be used for storage or to get the additional extension to keep up with the Vifas.

    Seems hard to beat the LATs damnit. The packaging is way to good.

  3. #43
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    Hmm, 6 Vifa NE265w-8 10" subs would work really nice in a push-pull. 30% more surface area (compared to 3 vifa 12"s) on what appears to be the same motor used in the 12" sub. That means given the suspension is built to the same standards 11.8mm of xmax is possible since the motor is the bottleneck of the design by far in the 12". That will give a lower QTS than all sub options, loads of power handling 900w IEC, or 1140w with the optional heatsinks, and would be more compact that the 4 Vifa s in a pushpull but not as compact as the LAT. However, the difference is small now. Damn, well at least I know the 12"s have to go now.

  4. #44
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    Tympani LAT Information

    I plan to have this post as a wealth of other sources of information on these drivers. Since they are discontinued I'll try to create an archive on my comp and maybe host it later if the links die. If anybody wants to add to it post it at will and I'll update the post with your contributions.

    Tympani white sheets:
    All tech paper: http://www.tymphany.com/files/resour...Paper_0601.PDF
    700: http://www.tymphany.com/files/resour...LAT700-001.pdf
    500:http://www.tymphany.com/files/resour...LAT500-002.pdf
    250:http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/299-850s.pdf

    Modeling:
    Tympani 250:http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/299-850a.pdf
    All: tymphany_lat_250_500_700_subwoofer_application_dat a
    700: http://www.coolcat.dk/bjoern/LAT_Quarter_Wave.pdf
    250 and 500: LAT TymphanyLAT Tymphany

    3rd party testing:
    250 Zaph:Zaph|Audio
    Drivers: Tymphany LAT250-004 (series)/HiVi TM1a (unchambered) - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com

    Magazine reviews:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200802020...fer/index.html
    Last edited by cvjoint; 05-20-2012 at 07:09 PM.

  5. #45
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    I bumped over some discussions on how the Tympani LAT design draws heavily upon some older Heil design from a long time ago. I think I saw one at THE Show on Sunday. Here is the modern reincarnation of the Transar:

    pic stolen from here:
    ESS Transar 5 Anyone? - Page 3 - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

    Note the diaphragms connected by carbon fiber rods. Unlike the LAT these seems to be a very basic multi cone speaker. It sounded rather SPL limited in the demo. The guy who demoed it was a sweetheart, as was his lady (DC Gold Audio). I got their buisness car and I would like to check out their 7" driver too, it's a spiderless design, wicked cool.
    Last edited by cvjoint; 06-05-2012 at 04:59 AM.

  6. #46
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    Went ahead and got basic TS parameters from my IB LATs. The results are quite unlike any TS paramters I've gotten in car IB before.



    Compare this to how they test free air:



    QTS went down, impedance peak dropped, and there is now another impedance peak at 22hz or so. What do you think is going on here? To me it seems like it behaves more like aperiodic with that QTS going down and znom decreasing. The dual peak is more like a ported design.
    Last edited by cvjoint; 06-15-2012 at 04:44 AM.

  7. #47
    Member Highly's Avatar
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    Thrilled to see that you continued with this. Exceptional!
    Team MSE/JL Audio
    2010 MECA OK State Champion Modified SQ and Install
    2011 MECA OK State Champion Extreme SQ, SQ BOS
    2011 MECA World Champion Extreme SQ
    2012 MECA OK State Champion Extreme SQ, SQ BOS

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