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Thread: A-Pillar Planning, Advice Needed

  1. #1
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    A-Pillar Planning, Advice Needed

    I have a Honda Element, and it has huge A pillars. My goal is to get as wide of a freq band as I can from them. I would love to go tweeterless, and run a fullrange in the A pillar with a woofer in the door still. Processing will be handled with an Imprint H650, so there will be limitations to what I can do, including limiting me to a 2way up front unless I remove my rear speakers or neglect to tuning them.

    I have enough room to squeeze up to a 4" driver (with small magnet) and point it almost completely rearward (near perpendicular to the windshield. The problem with the 4" though is they have great low end options but I have not found any that I think would climb high enough to eliminate the need for a tweeter. I am leaning more toward a 3" option (nothing specific yet) but I worry they may not play low enough. (I want lower than 300~400hz out of them) Im getting old & my hearing above 16khz is not what it used to be, so I dont think I'll miss a tweeter if I get the right full ranger.

    This got me thinking about a potential array, like stacking 3~4 2" drivers vertically (or 2 3" drivers) but I have no experience with arrays. It seems like they would offer better imaging by having a more directional sound, but I cannot find anything regarding how arrays impact their freq range as a whole or how hard it may be to flatten their response. Maybe I am mistaken in thinking an array will extend the freq response of a single driver.

  2. #2
    Controller AL9000's Avatar
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    Are you going to mount them to the upper corner of the doors just behind the A-pillars, or are you going to mount them to the side of the pillars perpendicular to the OEM tweeters?

    If you were to mount a tweeter just above your mid, I don't think they would need any processing other than a crossover. You could just build a passive crossover for the mid and tweet, and then use the Imprint to process their delay as one unit.


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    I was planning to have them closer to the doors on the edge of the A pillar & not on the side where the oem tweeter is.

    i had thought about just running a tweeter with a passive system & treat the A pillar as a single driver, but I love to tweak settings & that's just not as easily doable with a passive setup. I know I'd want to play with where they met & how they were blending, but maybe that's a pipe dream anyway. Lol

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    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    My recommendation is to focus on the lower octaves up to 1khz. Pick the beefiest 4" you can get. By comparison, a fixed crossover between a 4" speaker and a tweeter is not really an issue. Very few EQs. can optimize frequency response for speakers independently, most of them are left right only even in high end markets. I can't say there is much to gain moving the crossover point between tweeter and woofer. Pick something easy for the tweeter to cover and I doubt you'd regret it. Say you pick 5,000hz. No doubt a tweeter will sound better 5khz up, and an inline capacitor will also protect it from damage.

    I use an inline cap on my AMTs despite having a "full" active setup.

    The second best option is to use dual 3" drivers. You could run the one on top full range but limit the one on the bottom up to 2khz or thereabouts. Both would cover 2khz down. This is not as good as the option above imo. Surface area wise you'd barely match a 4" but you'd lose excursion capability. Secondly that full range 3" won't sound as great up top as the tweeter. Loses at both ends of the spectrum.

    I know 4" + tweeter sounds too plain jane but sometimes those common solutions are common for a reason.
    2001 Honda S2000
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    4 way: Aurum Cantus AST2560 Air Motion Transformers, BG Neo8-s Planar transducers, Peerless XLS 10" MAC midbass woofers, Tympany LAT700 x2

  5. #5
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention one thing. Get the most surface area for the woofer that you can squeeze. Nothing is more important than cone area for reducing distortion for your application. Even if it means your tweeter can only be 1/2' deep or 1" in diameter. Good midrange with small drivers is much tougher to achieve than a crossover between a small midrange and a tweeter. Almost any dome will work equally well.

    Look at woofers that optimize cone area. Something with truncated frames, small surrounds (even at the cost of excursion), no phase plug, etc.
    2001 Honda S2000
    Head: Pioneer P99 + Samsung Galaxy S3
    Amplifiers: 3,000w+ Zeff class G/H power
    4 way: Aurum Cantus AST2560 Air Motion Transformers, BG Neo8-s Planar transducers, Peerless XLS 10" MAC midbass woofers, Tympany LAT700 x2

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    I was playing with the car a little today, couldnt play much since it was over 100* outside (& hotter in my garage).
    So larger is better eh?

    That is a 5.25" PG Xenon, which is a huge speaker for anyone unfamiliar. As you can see there is more than enough real estate to drop a 4" in there, possibly without adding to the already huge blind spot if I do it right.

    I guess I wont take the 4"+tweeter off the table.

  7. #7
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    Always is! Two inches to the left and I bet you'll get all your viewing area back. This is a custom pod, I wouldn't be afraid to use that flexibility and move the speaker right next to the side window. If there is a will there is a way to build it.

    A 1" tweeter with a chamber should be very easy to stick on top. That way you don't have to seal the pod between them.
    2001 Honda S2000
    Head: Pioneer P99 + Samsung Galaxy S3
    Amplifiers: 3,000w+ Zeff class G/H power
    4 way: Aurum Cantus AST2560 Air Motion Transformers, BG Neo8-s Planar transducers, Peerless XLS 10" MAC midbass woofers, Tympany LAT700 x2

  8. #8
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    Here's a few 4"ers I've considered in the past. I tried to fit the one in the first link, but the diameter was too large.

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-848

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-881

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-890

    These drivers also seem to have a bit higher sensitivity than their other 4" counterparts.

  9. #9
    Controller AL9000's Avatar
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    My concern has always been the side-curtain airbag. I've looked all over and can't find a pic of the Element's deployment pattern. The last thing I want in case of an accident is a speaker pod clobbering me.


  10. #10
    Senior Member cvjoint's Avatar
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    disconnect that thing! You can simulate an airbag with a resistor. I had to do it for my Recaro seats :P
    2001 Honda S2000
    Head: Pioneer P99 + Samsung Galaxy S3
    Amplifiers: 3,000w+ Zeff class G/H power
    4 way: Aurum Cantus AST2560 Air Motion Transformers, BG Neo8-s Planar transducers, Peerless XLS 10" MAC midbass woofers, Tympany LAT700 x2

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