Upfront bass illusion - Follow up

[Candisa]

I agree about moving the rattles to the front when using a front-sub, but most people (including us) already strip the front-end of the car completely to dampen the doors and floor, customize the dashboard to house mids and tweeters, wiring up the headunit and all speakers...
So it's not that hard to add a few braces and some extra dampening while everything is apart...

If you can decrease the rattling coming from the back, you might end up not having to dampen/brace/... the rear part of the passenger-compartment of the car and saving work hours in the end...

It all depends on the car, install and skills. In a Saab 900classic, it's ''easy'' to customize the center console to house a pair of 8'' subwoofers and that's the only reason why we even thought about doing it...

Isabelle

[cvjoint]

Looking forward to see the build. There are lots of unique aspects and I like the driver choice.

[Candisa]

We are working at the center console at the moment.
2 conclusions for now:
- It will be possible to mount both our CSS Trio8's fysically into the center console, but...
- The volume that can be created in the center console is *just* enough... for 1 of them...
Since using only 1 Trio8 will probably be not enough to match the max. SPL of the rest of the system, this is a problem...

I see 1 way to 'solve' this issue: create controlled leaks in the enclosure and try to absorb the out-of-phase sound that is coming from those leaks as much as possible.
In real life, this means:
- The Trio8's will be aimed towards the rear of the car,
- We'll use 1 Dynaudio Variovent in each side of the center-console-enclosure, venting to the feet of the driver and passenger,
- The enclosure will be well stuffed to increase the virtual enclosure-size and absorb part of the sound that is going to the Variovents.

Isabelle

[cvjoint]

How about doing a passive radiator setup? CSS has some variable weight membranes that could be really fun to play with.

[Xenia]

But not an 8".... And there is no way we could fit a 10"... We already will have to work with a mounting ring with one of the mini-subs to fit it in the console, because it is too narrow...

[Candisa]

As Xenia said, a 10'' PR won't fit. Apart from that, we don't have an amplifier laying around that is powerfull enough to push a single Trio8 to the same SPL level as we could do with 2 of them (even in a way too small enclosure).

I think using variovents will be the only solution if it doesn't work out sealed...

Isabelle

[Subwoofery]

IMO, sub integration typically is as simple as proper level matching (via gain and/or crossover) and that's about it. Phase correction certainly helps bit by and lage, most systems that I listen to have the sub jacked up and expect their little midbasses to keep up. Truthfully, a nice system doesn't need much low end at all... Just enough to fill in where the mid bass cannot.

When you say level matching, what is too much? I have around 7dB more output in the sub range than my midbasses but don't have a problem with localization - other than seat vibration...

Kelvin

[Candisa]

I think sub- versus midbass-level is a matter of personal taste, as long as the transition to the midbasswoofers is smooth.
The problem with a lot of installs is that the sub-range is flat (or even rising to the top-end!) and then you have a huge step down when the midbasswoofers take over....

Personally, I like my sub-sonic frequencies a bit louder than the rest of the sound (I like the sound and feel of them, but the human ear doesn't pick them up very well). I wouldn't matter to have a system that is 10dB louder at 18Hz than the rest of the frequency range... But the transition to the midbass must be nice and smooth (a nice slope instead of a hard step)...

Isabelle

[Xenia]

Probably not gonna happen in the saab though...:p I like a smooth rolloff at the bottom end...
I feel -as Erin mentioned- that there needn't be a boost, since I too think sub only needs to be there for fill...

Enjoyment of music for me means having a detailed, natural response... Most speakers (home- and car-audio) have a little rise (or rather a more shallow rolloff) at the bottom to compensate for the natural rolloff of the human ear... But that boost is usually nowhere near 10dB... At least not for what I look for in a good speaker, or the curve I like...

[Xenia]

double