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Thread: Klippel Test Links

  1. #1
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    Klippel Test Links

    We all know Ant owns the Klippel and the data therefore stays on his site. A few of you who don't visit there have asked that I give you a heads up as I post test data up, though. So, I'll just keep this thread updated as I go.

    The plan is to test all drivers with FR, HD, and Klippel. I'll post all but Klippel here for each test and link Klippel results.

    I'm not a freak over doing HD and FR testing for subs, and to go ahead and break out in to the ring I decided to test a sub that isn't for sale any longer but is still quite nice... With that said, here's a link to my official first klippel test and results:
    The Peerless XXLS 12" for car purpose
    DIYMA.com

    This is obviously not my forte, but I'm working on it.

    Inductance curve indicates the sub uses shorting rings (nice curve; lower Le at extremes and higher at rest).
    Fs is kind of high, at least to me but whatever.
    Re should help you cook an amp quick.
    Vas seems a bit on the large side, but then again, this is a 12" driver.
    Bl doesn't look bad, but when you see the offset graph toward the end, it looks worse. Same with K.
    Distortion figures seem really low to me, but you can see in the results that Bl is the highest contributing factor (I dunno, maybe this is a 'no duh').

    Driver overall seems very nice. The measured Bl is listed in the t/s parameters and I used 82% of that, which puts me at about 7.79mm excursion. Spec linear excursion (nominal) is 12.5mm. Still not sure exactly what was the causation for the driver to not test higher... output power was only limited to 100w which is a good 15w above what the measurement stopped at (previously had tested at 20w and 50w where the test stopped due to lack of amp power).


    Hopefully this doesn't get ugly. I'm trying my best to document what I've done for help purposes. Feedback is certainly welcome!


    Thanks,
    Erin
    Last edited by ErinH; 05-07-2011 at 01:49 AM.
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  2. #2
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    FWIW, there's a 12w6v2 sitting on the stand ready to make some noise. Parameters have already been entered into the Klippel software and saved...

    Name:  12w6v2 Impedance & T-S.jpg
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  3. #3
    Founding Member 86mr2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErinH View Post
    FWIW, there's a 12w6v2 sitting on the stand ready to make some noise. Parameters have already been entered into the Klippel software and saved...

    Name:  12w6v2 Impedance & T-S.jpg
Views: 233
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    Cool, that will be fun to see!

  4. #4
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    I'm having some trouble getting my parameters to show me the xmax range that mfg spec shows. I can finagle the results by lowering Bl(0) but that's not the measured Bl and, IMO, isn't an accurate way of getting the value I expect.

    Then again, xmax is calculated. Who's to say the spec is always right...
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  5. #5
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    Is there a way to lower the BL fit to 70%? I think that's considered the standard.

    Also, how did your measured BL compare to spec?

  6. #6
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    mfg spec is 10.xx and mine is 9.xx.

    I can lower Bl, but I'm trying to find out why the default is 82%.
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  7. #7
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    FWIW, Dr. Klippel co-authored a paper on distortion in the latest (5/11) issue of VoiceCoil. Literally just picked up the mag, so I haven't read it yet. More to follow.

    EDIT1: Not that paper, but a bit about the Klippel percentages Vance Dickason uses:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dickason, "Wavecor and Faital Home and Pro Drivers," 24 Voice Coil 7 (2011), at 19.
    Displacement limiting numbers calculated by the Klippel analyzer were XBl at 82% (Bl decreasing to 82% of its maximum value) = 9.2mm, and for XC at 75% (compliance decreasing to 75% of its maximum value) was 7.3mm (nearly the physical Xmax of the 18XL1600), which means that the compliance is the limiting factor for the prescribed distortion level of 10% for using this driver as a subwoofer.
    Last edited by DS-21; 05-08-2011 at 10:16 AM.

  8. #8
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    See, that's where I'm having my trouble.
    That driver spec xmax is 13mm.
    FaitalPRO - Professional Loudspeakers Made in Italy

    That is not 7.3 which is stated above as "near physical xmax" ,based off 75% Cms.
    Then, you look at Bl to see if the 9.2mm @ 82% syncs up to the rated Bl of 26.7. Nope. Nada.

    So, this is where I'm currently confused. Maybe I'm just overlooking something simple, but I'm not seeing it.
    This has been the most troubling part.
    I read Dickason's Loudspeaker Design Cookbook and found that he pretty much sticks to the default values, yet expands zmax to 20% (from 10% default) for subwoofer testing. He gives Bl and Cms values for 5 subwoofer designs, and then follows with the Klippel results. Again, the values for xmax do not sync up to a simple percentage of the Bl values or Cms values.
    The only conclusion I've come to thus far is that, when using the default/reasonable settings with nominal protection settings, the results are what they are: not necessarily the mfg xmax values.
    My goal while I'm on travel is to see if i can find these answers. Like I said, maybe this is simp,y a case of "not seeing the Forrest for the trees.". Which is exactly why I'm posting this up... Maybe one of you guys can see what I'm so clearly overseeing.

    Erin
    Your ears: The best tools you have... and they're free, too!

  9. #9
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    A step toward the answer.
    http://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/klip...ent_Limits.pdf

    Yep, looks like that answers my questions. Especially the last portion where the limiting factors are discussed Now it's just a matter of setting up an excel sheet to calculate driver limiting xmax parameters to verify results are what they should be. Otherwise, it looks like my methods were correct. Overall, even after getting confused as he'll with the above quandary, I believe the klippel is pretty much easy to use. My problems were with the why rather than the what. Think I've got my answers now.
    Last edited by ErinH; 05-08-2011 at 11:03 PM.
    Your ears: The best tools you have... and they're free, too!

  10. #10
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    Scanspeak 12m
    HAT L4
    HAT L4SE
    JL Audio 12w6v2

    All up here:
    Klippel Reviews & Driver Specs - DIYMA.com
    Your ears: The best tools you have... and they're free, too!

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