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Thread: Pioneer P9, P99, & 800PRS Tests

  1. #1
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    Pioneer P9, P99, & 800PRS Tests

    Here's some test results for the Pioneer P99RS in CD and iPod out. Also, I did a test on the 800PRS to see how it compares to the P99. Results are listed as noted below.

    *note:
    Added DEH-P9 Data to the thread below...

    The obligatory "prove you have them" picture:


    [IMG][/IMG]




    Thanks to JCollins for donating his P99 for testing. I made certain not to hot swap anything. These units were always powered down before swapping out rca's. Live and learn.

    On with the test...


    • Tested with RightMark Analyzer v5.5.
    • Headunits powered off battery source.
    • CD or iPod source (noted in test results).

      • iPod track is .wav format

    • Signal from 'mid' channels to PC soundcard (m-audio audiophile 2496).
    • All audio options set to 'off' or 'defeat'.
    • Volume on headunit was set to threshold for software (53/62 for P99; 52/62 for 800PRS). Note that before I tested the units with the software, I tested them with a scope to see if/where they clip. The 3rd post in this thread shows the units do not clip at full output with a 1khz tone. Good to go.



    Note: The numbers in the summary can be deceiving. Look at the graphs. Sometimes a 'better' number doesn't turn out as well on the graph (ie: P800 vs P99).

    P99 CD player & iPod Test Results:
    Summary:


    THD:


    Noise:


    IMD:


    FR:


    Dynamic Range:


    Cross Talk:



    P99 Cross Talk Between it's own channels:




    The ipod and cd portions seem to be identical. Looks like this unit indeed bypasses the ipod DAC and uses it's own. Otherwise, I'm not sure I'd expect the results to be so dead on to each other.

    Great results overall. If it weren't so dang cumbersome to tune with (at least to me), I'd be all for buying one of these units. That, and they'd have to make it a double din. But, hey, you never know...

    No, I haven't listened to it. There's too many variables involved. I've heard plenty of cars with this deck... that's close enough.
    Your ears: The best tools you have... and they're free, too!

  2. #2
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    800PRS vs P99 CD Player:



    Summary:


    FR:


    Cross Talk:


    THD:


    IMD:


    Dynamic Range:


    Noise:

    Your ears: The best tools you have... and they're free, too!

  3. #3
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    This is the P9 deck only vs the P99 deck. No DSP tied to the P9 deck; Measuring the CD transport, only.

    Summary of the P9 vs the P99:


    FR:


    Cross-Talk:


    THD:


    IMD:


    Dynamic Range:


    Noise:
    Your ears: The best tools you have... and they're free, too!

  4. #4
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    The p99 does not clip with 1khz, 0dB tone:


    The 800prs does not clip with 1khz, 0dB tone:



    Note, the scale was changed during the tests, so don't try to resolve what voltage you get out of the units by looking at the above pictures' scale. ;)




    And while I'm the only one killing my own thread right now... if anyone I know who is seeing this has the hookup on the p99 deck, LMK. Seriously.



    ;)


    For the fun of it, here's a picture of all the other stuff I'm testing or have tested (and some of it isn't pictured here):


    3 JL 12w6v2's, lol!
    Your ears: The best tools you have... and they're free, too!

  5. #5
    Devil's Advocate Adam_MSS's Avatar
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    Damn. Makes the 800prs out to be quite the bargain, huh? Seems like most of the anomalies that show up in the 800prs tests also showed up in the p99 ipod vs. cd tests.
    You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right. - R.Munroe

    The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to discover new ways of thinking about them. - W.L.Bragg



  6. #6
    Tester Extraordinaire ErinH's Avatar
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    one thing I do wonder about is how the 800prs handles ipod. the whole idea that usb automatically means it bypasses the DAC doesn't seem to be true if you use my alpine measurements to go by. different results.
    if you look at the p99 test, the results for cd vs. ipod are the same. that seems like it certainly bypasses the ipod dac. that might be one good feature. plus, the p99 has a good deal more processing built in.
    Still, the 800prs is certainly a bargain (if you can find it... I just sold 3 for $450 each ;)).

    one thing I am curious about is just how much these measurements can tell us about the sound. so, they measure the same. does that encompass everything that results in what we hear? I've heard from people I trust, who I would have otherwise thought would say different: dacs do sound different. I'm not one to get in on a debate, but what I'm saying (wondering) here is: is the measurement(s) a reflection of the DAC(s)? If so, then the data stands on its own. If not, maybe there's more than meets the eye here.

    That said, I do this stuff as a science experiment. Take from it what you will. I do know that these headunits measured better than the alpine headunits I've tested thus far... especially with regards to the ipod. If the p99 was oversized to a DD body, I'd buy it. I'm absolutely sick of alpine right now. If you need a good read, feel free to see why I say that:
    DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality - View Single Post - Alpine PXA-H800 Processor Discussion Thread
    Your ears: The best tools you have... and they're free, too!

  7. #7
    Devil's Advocate Adam_MSS's Avatar
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    My gut response to your question about the measurements being reflective of the difference in DACs is "no, that's not what we're seeing here". Most DACs are pretty good at what they do. I don't know that comparison of amplitude measurements of analog outputs is a meaningful comparator for DAC evaluation until you get into very fine resolution. On the other hand, this sort of test can show anomalies due to the digital to analog conversion process (might be a couple evident in this data).I'd think if you wanted to do a more comprehensive evaluation of the DACs you'd have to look at issues in the time domain as well as the amplitude domain. I believe I've seen comparisons elsewhere using a reference track, digital to analog conversion by the DACs being tested, then analog to digital conversion by a known "good" ADC and then a bit comparison between the original file and the new files. I'm with you in that I can't say DACs are a non-issue, but I think I can pretty confidently say that they typically aren't the low-hanging fruit in a given car audio system.
    You don't use science to show that you're right, you use science to become right. - R.Munroe

    The important thing in science is not so much to obtain new facts as to discover new ways of thinking about them. - W.L.Bragg



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